Interview with Lillian Novak, by Christina Novak, for the Voices of World War II History Project, Center for Oral History, University of Connecticut, November 17, 2001:
Novak: Can you tell me where and when you were born?
Lillian Novak: Yes. I was born September 12, 1927.
CN: And where were you born?
LN: And I was born in West Haven, Connecticut.
CN: Can you tell me about your early life?
LN: Yes. My parents were immigrants from Italy, didn’t know the language. And it was depression times that they grew up to…and I remember we kind of struggled as I grew up, I could realize, at the time no I didn’t realize it, but as I got a little older, up to the grade school I realized- we were poor-but yea, all around us, all around us people were in the same category, you know everyone was struggling, it was depression time…and uh-but I had loving parents, which we didn’t realize at that time how poor we were.
CN: What was your
parent’s education?
LN: (Laugh) I couldn’t even tell you. I couldn’t tell ya. My dad (laugh) I
don’t even think they had grades they just went into rooms and uh…I couldn’t
tell you, either one, and I wished I did take more interest before they’d
passed away. My dad died 52 years old but my mom lived with me after that, long—til she was 73 and…I wished I had asked more
questions about their day.
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CN: What were their occupations?
LN: Well at the time there was no work around and President Roosevelt formed the WPA for people that had no income and just gave them like… if, I’m not mistaken, street work and my dad worked when they were building the Yale Bowl, he went to work on the football Yale Bowl, he worked there. Mhm.
CN: How about your mother?
LN: My mother worked when we started getting bigger at… I was the youngest of four children. My brother was six years older than me and my
sister was (my two twin sisters) were four years older than me and I was the youngest child.
CN: When did your mom start working?
LN: Well when were in grade school then, I would say 6th, 7th grade, she worked in a dress factory sewing doing that kind of stuff.
CN: How did your father feel about her working?
LN: Glad to get the help. (Laugh)
CN: Where did you go to school?
LN: The names of the schools? I went to a school, Washington School was the name I went from Kindergarten to the 6th grade, from 7th and 8th I went to Prince Street School, and then I went to Hillhouse High School and I was in their 3 months when I decided I wanted to go learn a trade,
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sewing, and I went to Boardmen Trade, at the time it was Boardmen Trade, today its Eli Whitney but at the time it was Boardmen Trade.
CN: What town were those schools in?
LN: New Haven.
CN: What were your childhood interests?
LN: I loved music, I loved dancing, I loved going to the movies and seeing…different –Shirley Temple, woo, she was my favorite, you kidding me!
CN: Did anyone in your family serve in WW I?
LN: I think my moms… not that they served but…I guess my mom had some recollection of the war…(long pause and grimace)
CN: Do you know what those recollections were?
LN: Well…I know there’s a family story around, and I’m almost afraid to tell it…I think a pigeon came by the window (nervous laugh) by the window wherever it was and they took the pigeon and killed him (chuckle) and there was a message on his leg, so I don’t know…
CN: So what happened after that? After they killed the pigeon?
LN: Well they… my mother, they ran to confession. (Laugh) to confess the sin and the priest told them it was to late to do anything, please be very careful from hereon in…I guess I don’t know what the priest really thought, but anyway he told them not to do anything else about it but never to do it again
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CN: Why couldn’t they kill the pigeons?
LN: There was a message. What the message was they didn’t even know.
CN: Why didn’t they know?
LN: Cause it could have been from WW I
CN: Could your parents read?
LN: Italian, yea, their Italian they did.
CN: Could they read English?
LN: Not at the time. No. They came here, immigrants, my mother learned how to speak English when she came here, she started—as time went by she started reading most of it…making out most of the story, she was able to get the plot of the story.
CN: What were you doing before the war started?
LN: Well, I was in grade school, I was just getting ready to go to High school.
CN: Did that change when the war began?
LN: What the…
CN: Were you still in school?
LN: Oh yes, yes. A whole different out…scary being the way times…but to me today’s times are so much worse, I’m not even gonna compare that war with this war, you know we never had a fear—when I was real young I thought the bombs were gonna come the very day Pearl Harbor was
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attacked, you know we never lived through a war before and didn’t know what to expect, just figured bombs were gonna come from the sky and you
know…but we never did see that-thank god, our country was very lucky at that time.
CN: When did you first realized there would be a war.
LN: Oh no we didn’t. Pearl harbor was a surprise attack, it just came out of the blue, but of course Germany at that time was, you know…made the United States, made everyone feel that maybe we should have gotten involved sooner with Germany, you know with the problem with what Hitler was doing to all the surrounding countries, taking over little by little, but Pearl Harbor was just-Shock, to everybody shock. I remember it was a Sunday, and Sunday just about all people, my friends, our neighborhood friends would go to the movies on a Sunday afternoon that was the thing to do, there was no television, everyone went to the movies, and we’re coming home from the movie, and people were in the streets, saying “Pearl Harbor was attacked.”, I mean, “the United States was attacked by the Japanese” and I was with my two sisters, they are four years older than me and I was so scared I just thought…and when I-we slept together in one bed, and that night I went to bed I was shaking so much of the bed my sisters were getting ann—you know I was…they were annoyed with me cause they couldn’t go to sleep because I thought the bombs were gonna come while we were sleeping…
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CN: How did you feel about American involvement before Pearl Harbor? Did you think about it at all.
LN: No you didn’t see…never had war Chris, you didn’t think it would come to us, you know you thought, you heard about wars going on from school, and learning your Social Studies and history…you didn’t you just figured you’d have nothing to do with it.
CN: Did you follow the events in Europe before America’s involvement?
LN: Not too much. Not to much, just what we learned in school you know…
CN: What did you learn in school about it?
LN: (Pause) About the war? Well, our Social Studies teacher would talk about it more than the others, our other teachers hardly discussed it with us and… you know very against the way things were done and all, you know real patriotic for our country. But I will say everything changed after Pearl Harbor was attacked, people the next day were lined up, there were already recruiting stations up, everybody wanted…so many young fellows just went to enlist there was no doubt about it, they just—Lines, and when
the fellows used to go away to the war…the service, they went by train. So we went to the railroad station and, we lived right up the corner from the railroad station, and even before my brother was drafted, my brother was six years older than me and he was drafted, and the family always went with the member of their family who was going in the service and that
railroad station was wall to wall people, people crying, people saying good bye to their…you know, it was a very sad time and that’s when you realized—see I even, I still get goose bumps now thinking about those times. And my brother did go to Germany. He was, you see, he was a baker before he got drafted so they put him as a chef and cook for a…and he went to the 32nd Armored Division. He went overseas to-he was in the Battle of Luxembourg. He actually did not see that much action because he was a chef and a cook.
CN: You said only your Social Studies talked about the war in Europe before Pearl Harbor? Did your other teachers start talking about the war after Pearl Harbor?
LN: See I don’t have a recollection of that. No I don’t think so, nothing stands out in my mind about that.
CN: Did you support American involvement in WWII?
LN: Very much so. Very much.
CN: When did you come to that decision to support the US?
LN: Instantly. When they harmed us. But like I say even to this day, you hear people say the US should have gone to help the Jewish people and got involved in the war helping capture…(trails off)
CN: What was the general attitude of people after Pearl Harbor?
LN: Patriotic as could be. Patriotic. Loved, just like this and…everybody becomes so united there’s no more racial, there’s no more, none of that
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we’re all one like it is right now. I feel like that part made our country so united.
CN: After the US entered the war did your life change?
LN: Yes. Yes. We had blackouts, we had rationed food, of course we didn’t have an automobile our family so… but they used to ration gas. Sugar was a big…you had to have stamps, every time you went to buy
groceries there were things you had to buy with stamps, you were only allowed to get it with stamps and money naturally.
CN: What was your experience like with the air raid drills and blackouts?
LN: Scary. We had, everyone had…when the air raid system used to go out…you’d hear it out in the atmosphere and uh…everybody had to shut lights, no lights at all, all shades had to be down…and they used to have air raid warden, walking up and down the streets, several to each street, you know, neighborhood, and they would just walk making sure everyone was doing what they were supposed to. This was all tryouts in case we were, planes were coming, they would be all black out so they couldn’t tell, I guess they didn’t have the kind of ammunition and planes they have today so it was different, yea. Air raid… and then the alarm would go off when the raid was over, they had these periodically, they had em like… at the time I don’t know if it was once a month, once a week, that I can’t recall.
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CN: You mentioned rationing. How did you feel about the rationing system?
LN: Those things don’t bother you when you’re young, you know you still kind of live the same, and eat the same…you know, my mom done a pretty good job with that thing, handling that, that we all had a right amount of food in the house and stuff like that.
CN: At the time how did you view the Japanese?
LN: Evil. Were our enemy, that’s the only way I looked at it. How could they do that to all our…our navy. Was that our navy? At Pearl Harbor?
CN: (Nods)
LN: Yea at the time it was just so devastating that they killed all those innocent people. And then…and then after that we didn’t have no television naturally and you’d hear it on the news, the news they’d speak about the war, the President spoke and we all tried to listen, and if I’m not mistaken at that period we didn’t have a radio either and uh…we went to a neighbors house to try to listen.
CN: How did you view the Germans at the time?
LN: Didn’t quite know enough about that. At that time you didn’t read the newspaper, you know and your parent’s…god I don’t even know if we got a newspaper you know. I have to say too much went over our heads at that period of my life.
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CN: And how about the Italians?
LN: Oh. Very strong for the United States, love-love. All the Italians love our country. Loved it.
CN: What were your feelings about Benito Mussolini’s Italians?
LN: At the time they were the…and even when they assassinated him, out in the public they hung him, I think upside down yea. You just felt…no sadness for him, no because he was our enemy at the time. He was Hitler’s right hand man there.
CN: Was there any animosity towards Italian or German immigrants.
LN: Well, if I’m not mistaken, my mom…as the war later went on I think
my brother bought us a radio and…if I’m not mistaken my dad was a
citizen but my mother wasn’t and it’s almost—you know, I forgot, there was some restriction about my mother. Was it a radio that she couldn’t have, you know, a short wave radio, they used to have short wave radios…weren’t allowed to have it. There was some restriction about my mom not being an American citizen, but she was an American citizen in her mind, she loved this country. It was like, she realized living here compared to where she came from, her life was so much happier here and easier.
CN: Did you know any Japanese Americans?
LN: No. But there was a bitter time for the Japanese Americans that were here. They were put in camps.
CN: Did you find out about that when it was happening?
LN: More or less, more after, after when, you know, the war was over, all these… a lot more things start coming out and then you start getting a little older and you knew more about…but I think to this day the Japanese Americans that were here in this country and they, the ones that went through it resent it somewhat, that they had to…be put away like that.
CN: Why did you feel we were fighting the war?
LN: (Pause). Because our enemy attacked us. Enemy attacked, a surprise attack. It was so brutal at the time you just couldn’t comprehend, how could they do that to our country.
CN: There were people across the US who didn’t support the war. Did you know anyone that didn’t support the war?
LN: (Pause). Not really. No.
CN: Now did you know anybody that fought in WW II?
LN: Oh sure. Just about everybody like my brother, in fact, I told you my brother was a cook, a chef, in the service and he was in the armored division and at that time he was in Luxembourg and he was close to…and when they got attacked, when they were losing at that period, it was a very bad time for our country in Luxemburg. The Germans were really out winning the war at that time but the Americans…and my brothers
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sergeant came up to him in the kitchen, handed him a rifle and said, “You’re not a cook anymore, you’re in the infantry.” And you had to…he just took off with his gun and I you know after that I don’t know, but my
brother told us that story, once he came home and he told it to my oldest sister and not to me, I just heard it through my sister after. And my poor brother died at 42, shortly after, he didn’t live to…yea but he was a very very nice…patriotic man.
CN: Did you keep in touch with him?
LN: Oh yes, we wrote letters to him, wrote, you know and he would write to us. We would get air mail letters and when Luxemburg Battle was going on my mom and dad used to cry all the time cause we had no news, at that time mail wasn’t coming through like on a regular basis the way we, you know used to hear from him and my parents were always crying thinking that something happened. And of course…you know afterwards when I got married I heard my husbands story about his brother went in the service and he was in the navy and he, his ship got struck by enemy, uh…not…our own mine. Off North Carolina.
CN: Now was there any censorship of your letters?
LN: Oh yea. Yes. Going and coming.
CN: How did you feel about this?
LN: But you know what, we were so innocent of things that were, anything that would be against our country or would be a threat of
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anyway, I don’t think…but there…sometimes where they were would be just blocked out, like say from my brothers letter you know if he happened to say where he was or something it would be blocked out.
CN: Did you keep in touch with anyone else during the war through correspondences?
LN: A lot of my friends started having… just, mailing letters to servicemen, that were lonely overseas but I don’t think I even remember doing it now. And you see, my sisters were five years older than me and a lot of the navy, New London navy base, they would come into the city, sometime from New London to New Haven and they would get off…and a lot of the young girls would know what time the train was coming and (laugh) they’d always happen to be walking by, before you know it, they’d meet sailors and they’d have a nice night together, talking and going for maybe a drink or whatever, but I didn’t do that because I was younger. My sisters did it though. (Harder laugh)
CN: How did your parents feel about this?
LN: (Pause) They handled it okay. I don’t think they really like…it bothered them in any sense of the way.
CN: Did your friendships change during the war?
LN: Friendship with who?
CN: Anyone around you? Your brother…?
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LN: Yes. You loved em all the more. You never realized how much you loved your brother until…you know he was gone and there was a threat of his life. Yea. You just loved em all the more and were petrified…and I do remember our first victory in….OH, the people. (Animated Voice) Everyone just came out of their house, were in the streets, the streets were full of people, it was like bigger than a parade would be going by and before you know it, everybody was just walking in the streets, in the middle of the street, just walking anywhere, Happy! Raising their hand-it was unbelievable and we ended up walking by Yale University, that’s how far we landed from…the New Haven railroad, which I would say would be three miles. About three miles. We landed in… and walking down York Street and all the—the students, were waving things…it was such a happy time. Of course but we still had another, you know, war to end to
but…and then after that with the same thing when the Japanese war was over. It was the same thing. Just the people just rejoicing, walking through the streets and waving their arms and hugging and kissing people. It was so so nice, never forget those days.
CN: Before the war did you consider yourself religious?
LN: Always. Yes. I always was religious.
CN: What was your religion?
LN: Catholic. Yes my whole life I never strayed from church. Yes I was always a devout Catholic.
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CN: Did the war affect your religion?
LN: Yes it made me turn to more, even more and prayed more.
CN: Did your religion affect your reaction to the war?
LN: It helped. It helped. I felt like, my religion helped me with just about my way of thinking everything about life.
CN: And how about others around you? Were they religious? And was their religion affected by the war?
LN: (Pause) I think I ended up being the most religious in my family, of my three siblings. They went to church and all, they did. They… they, if they had to miss mass, it wouldn’t be no big thing. (laugh) You know, which they didn’t do it often because my parents did keep after us to go.
CN: How did the war affect your whole town?
LN: Well, they had women that gathered at churches and done things made like bandages and blankets and things like that. What the heck else? And they had drives, you know for, not as much as today, though I have to say. Cause you know why? Everybody was poor. Our surroundings anyway. I’m sure there was wealthy people but we didn’t know about that.
CN: Did it affect the local economy? Was their new industry or jobs?
LN: Oh yeees. There was so much factory work around. At that time the factories were so many in the United States. In fact, cause don’t forget I was 14 when the war started, as the war went on, I’m through…cause I went to technical school and we went to school by punching a clock. Our
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hours. That’s how you got your diploma, by how many hours you put in, so I got through with school earlier than if I’d gone to regular high school. And I went to work in a factory, very very young. And …in a defense plant. Originally it was a rubber factory but then they started making all parts for planes or whatever, parts of…and if I’m not mistaken the cylinders, I made little cylinder caps. They were on one big sheet of rubber, there must have been like say, a hundred cylinders on one rubber sheet and I had to with a dye that fit over each cylinder, I had to dip it in some kind of a solution that made it slide and then I had to bang it with a mallet so I would tap it right out…and these cylinders capped something. It was used for defense— or airplane parts, that’s what somebody told us, but if it was right information I don’t know. But anyway, I got so fast at that, (laughing), I used to pop those cylinders out, and I was so proud of myself, and I used to show off, how much I could pop em out, (laughing) and how fast I could do it. And we all used to like, outdo the person in front of you and we would be all trying to showoff who could do the best. (Laugh) But at the time yes and if you…wanted to leave your job, you were not able to cause you had to get a permit; I don’t even know how you had to do it. You had to be excused from that job, had to be…to make sure…but if they needed you, they wouldn’t let you go.
CN: Did the war bring new housing to your area?
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LN: Not while the war was going on. Soon as it was over, all quantset…well in fact, while the war was on, I think they built quantset huts. That’s what they called them at the time, did you ever see those. Like a big giant tin. Round, they called em quantset huts. Like for soldiers that were…or if this came after the war where everybody came home at once and just to get em started. And I guess they got loans to, to build homes and they were allowed to go to college and finish their education, wherever it stopped, and they were allowed to go to college through government assistance. That was a very very good time where a lot of these poor boys may have never gone to college, but because they were in the service, cause I was in a poor neighborhood and their were all poor parents and most of the kids didn’t go to college in our neighborhood. But the ones that came back from the war, they all became, sooo many became teachers at that time, so many of these soldiers that came back but they all had nice educations and became whatever they wanted to, bettered their lives, they had a great opportunity, the country was very good to them. Veterans that came back.
CN: How much did your town change because of the war then?
LN: Lot of things were for the better. So many things after the war. Lot of work, building homes and a lot of…yes…and people buying and the
economy was-life started to get very good after that. Now the war ended in 45, right? Then my dad died in 46, the year after so that affected our lifestyle again and my mom at that time wasn’t working anymore and my brother was almost coming near getting married, so that time…I’d have to say-was sad maybe. It should have been…But we were still like I say, once you lose a member of the family, eventually time heals but then we picked up our lives and happiness then. It was so much nicer without the war. So much nicer. Like now, I feel like, you know, this feeling that we have now, when this things over and we can go back to feeling free about our lifestyle again, that’s the same way. The end of a war brings such a beautiful feeling.
CN: Did you know anybody that was killed in the war?
LN: So many people. So many. Arms came home, came home with no arms. Yea a lot of it at the time. Yes.
CN: How did that affect your community?
LN: We were sad. You know, you knew a neighbor; this boy…sometimes the brother would marry his brother’s wife, the widow. Yes I think, I knew
several of… two or three, just from around our neighborhood, scattered neighborhood.
CN: As a child what were your thoughts about the war?
LN: (Pause) Just petrified of the whole thing. I was just scared. Scary.
CN: How was the war portrayed in films?
LN: You know the only films we saw? Was the news. When you went to the movies you saw the news, which you know is a thing of the past. But that news was great. People that didn’t have, means, no television…today you can have news anytime of the day whenever you want it, but in those days it wasn’t like that. And you know when something big happened with the war they’d have in the middle of the night, you’d hear somebody in the street yelling “Extra Extra Read All about it.” Yelling through the streets, paperboy/man, whatever you want. He’s just selling paper in the middle of the night that’s how you got instant bad news or, you know, good news. It came…somebody-Extra. That’s…I can still hear the man yell “Extra Extra Read all about it.”
CN: So what were your feelings when you heard the man?
LN: Oh that was scary. You know? My parents were immigrants (laugh) but at that time they could make out…and they could speak English, not very well but they managed. But by that time, we… my sisters were older than me and we knew what was going on, world events, you know, bad things that were happening with the war, and good things.
CN: Do you remember how the war was portrayed in music?
LN: Oh yea. They had a lot of nice songs. Sooo many war songs. ‘When I come Marching Home,’ and ‘Don’t Sit Under the Apple Tree With anybody Else but Me’ and…OHHH so many of soldiers writing letters to their sweetheart, or sweetheart writing letters to their soldier boy. They made songs out of…I think just about all songs at that period, or the majority of them, had to do with the war.
CN: How was the war portrayed in cartoons?
LN: NOO. Never. I don’t ever remember that.
CN: Was the war talked about in school?
LN: I have to say not that much Chrissy, not that much. If I’m not remember right and its…but I think we…when the attack came, yes I can remember our teacher saying how sad it was and everything like that but no, never discussed the war. I have to say I think today the kids are a lot… education is a lot better than it was in my days. So much better. Like Ben, Ben my grandson is 12 years old, now, he’s so knowledgeable already, we didn’t have that. We really weren’t educated like today’s education. Maybe private school-I don’t know, I don’t…
CN: Did the kids talk about it amongst each other?
LN: Just when the war started. Petrified of it. Nobody liked it and didn’t want it. And we just though we’d be destroyed, you know. Think of being bombed.
CN: Did your family have a victory garden?
LN: Yea. At all times. At all times.
CN: Can you tell
me about the victory garden?
LN: Oh yes we had like, chickens in the yard. A coop with chickens. There would
always be about 12 chickens; we’d get eggs from them. And then my father used
to have, not a big area, but you’d be surprised. He had a little row of
tomatoes, bout three rows of tomato plants, a little lettuce and cucumber
and…grapes. We had a grape arbor… we had grapes. But not enough…we’d eat em
all. (Laughing) Sometimes we’d eat em green. My father would…(mimicking father’s
voice) “let em stay until their ripe!”
CN: What was the purpose of the victory garden?
LN: Well cause you know you were rationed with your food, you know, how much canned vegetable or canned fruit you could get, so you tried to do as much on your own as you can. But they did anyway. That was the only way they knew from where they came from. There was no supermarkets in Italy, so it was…that didn’t change too much in our family’s, you know, way of living. But my mom started getting a little—started getting-she loved America and the easier… buying canned stuff, she loved it.
CN: Did your family participate in scrap drives?
LN: Yes. Yes. At the time they used to collect, I don’t know, a certain kind of pipes and stuff yea and we always donated. I don’t remember how
did we do that. Did somebody come around? Or they used to have scrap drives!—that’s what they used to have, scrap drive, and you had to bring these things to a certain place. Mhm.
CN: Now you said your brother went off to war?
LN: Yes. In my immediate family. And then I had all cousins that went to serve, all cousins…were you know, my moms sisters, she had two sisters here and my father had two brothers and all their sons went in the service. Anyone that was service age went in. everybody.
CN: What was your brothers name?
LN: Emilio.
CN: And you said you had cousins that went off to war? How did they fare?
LN: The same way. Everyone was patriotic. I never heard any anti-Amer, or anti-war…No everybody wanted to do their share.
CN: Did they come home? Was anybody killed?
LN: I had a young cousin. Very young went in at the time…he joined the CB’s, was there such? Do I have the initials right? Very young he went into…and then he became a marine and he end up being a major and he went in at 16 years old at the time. He end up a major in the…and he’s still alive today.
CN: Did you miss your brother when he was away?
LN: Very much so. We used to…my sisters and I wrote to him all the time.
CN: How diid you feel when he came back?
LN: Couldn’t believe he…So happy. Sooo happy. Couldn’t believe he was coming home. Oh, and I could just remember the anxiety, the waiting for him to come…it was so wonderful. And of course when I…he left I was just 14 and when he came back I was, you know, of course we saw each other before he went overseas. He came home on furlough but after that, once he went overseas, you didn’t see him til the war ended but by then I was a younger grown up woman, a young lady and it was nice…
CN: Do you remember when he came back?
LN: Yes I do. Yup. We went down to the station to meet him, the same way. Everybody waiting, waiting, the same way that when they took off. All families came, crying, hugging, kissing, loving…I got the goose bumps again.
CN: What was your parent’s reaction?
LN: Oh yea. So thrilled. Soooo thrilled. So thrilled. And my dad like I say he cried so much when my brother…almost I feel like he cried like my mother. Same way—cried… cried over…that he was so scared he was gonna be killed in Luxembourg. And uh…when he came home, he even cried with joy, when he was coming back.
CN: How did you feel about that? You’re parents crying? Was that common?
LN: You were scared, just—you felt what they felt.
CN: Did you ever feel unsafe during the war?
LN: Sometimes. When these air raids went on and these loud sirens coming from the sky, it was scary.
CN: Now when you were a child did you understand the significance of the war?
LN: (Sigh) Uh yes. You knew destruction from bombs. Yea that we used to see on the news sometimes when we would go to the movies. And they would film something going on in another country. But at the time I don’t think we knew enough to…what Hitler was doing with the Jews for a while. It was to…it went on a little to long, and he was getting away with it, where the United States today, I think maybe would have got in the war sooner. And I think they have regrets, a lot of the, older politicians when they talk about in those times.
CN: Now tell me again what kind of work you did before the war?
LN: Before the war?
CN: Did you work?
LN: No. Cause I went to trade school and then once…when I went to work, I went to work in the defense plant.
CN: During the war what was the economic situation of your family?
LN: I have to say my dad had a bad heart. He died at 52 but he…he had to be retired from work and at that time, no income, my dad was…he must have been retired about 3 or 4 years, his heart was so bad. And even during the war he had a bad heart and was out of work. And we had no income. There was no social security, it was tough, and we were always poor. By that time, my sisters were older and they start bringing home some money and paying…you know, we were poor. I was poor my whole life. I don’t mean my whole life, I mean when we were kids. But like I said, we didn’t know it, we still…before the war we were so happy-kids. We made our own games, we played out in the middle of the street, and…no video (small laugh) that you had to buy today, and we made our own fun. Hide and seek, kick the can, that kind of…we made our games. We were happy kids. We were very happy. We felt safe with our parents, you know at the time you don’t…but now that I’m older I can talk and say these things. But at the time I wouldn’t.
CN: How did you feel about your job during the war?
LN: Oh I was proud because I was getting money and I was so good at what I was doing. You were proud to be doing that work to at that time,
you know? Its defense work and parts that they needed for the war. Yes I…so you…it gave you a little feeling of helping out.
CN: How did you get along with your boss at the defense plant?
LN: Oh, at the time I was young and liked my boss. And yea, no problems.
CN: Was it a male?
LN: Oh it was a female at the time, a female. Forelady they called her (small laugh).
CN: What was the name of the plant that you worked for?
LN: Goodyear. Rubber Company.
CN: Would you have taken a job if the war hadn’t broken out?
LN: No I would have followed my trade, sewing. Cause that’s…you know at the time I was a pretty good sewer and I was doing well and I would have gone into a finer dress…in fact I just went to a reunion recently-a 55
year reunion,
every year, no matter which year you graduated and…and some of the girls I went
to school with still to this day make wedding gowns and they worked for
Harold’s, they still work at Harold’s, and their older women, still working
there all these year, I think I would have followed through more if…if it
wasn’t war, that stopped me kind of, from following through with my sewing,
then kind of …(Trails off)
CN: Why did you decide to switch from sewing to defense work?
LN: Because that was where you were needed. And you know—and you know it was so hard for companies to get enough people to work for them, you know? At that time, you got a job wherever you wanted to go, cause they were all in need and there were a lot of defense factories around, they
were all over. We had, so many…Pratt Whitney, they were, at the time, they were all around here. Big big companies. Sikorsky’s, oh they were all in such big demand with all the servicemen…that’s when they had that Rosie the Riveter song. (Laugh) That’s where…that song Rosie the Riveter came out because at the…(cough) in those days women didn’t do that kind of work with a helmet and riveting, it showed, you know, that’s when they came out with the song.
CN: Do you know how the song went?
LN: (Laugh) No. You wouldn’t want to hear me sing it, no! No way! (More laughter) You’d ruin your tape.
CN: Do you think…
LN: (More Choking)
CN: Do you want a glass of water?
LN: I think I need a glass of water.
(Tape is Paused and resumed in a minute)
CN: Do you think you would have gotten a job in the defense plant if the war hadn’t broken out? In the kind of work that you were doing?
LN: No. I don’t think so.
CN: Why not?
LN: Oh at the time, they would pick, you know people that were more…being a kid, I don’t know. I don’t know about that.
CN: How about being a female?
LN: Yea, at the time, more men got these…that’s when women start coming equal to men, and in fact, I think after that, WW II, where they realized women done-handled the jobs almost as well.
CN: How did you follow the events during the war when you were a young woman?
LN: Newspaper. Newspaper. A radio.
CN: What did you do for leisure or for fun when you were a young lady?
LN: (Clears throat) Dance. We’d go to a dance sometime on a Friday night…movies, Sunday, sometimes during the week. And…at the time we’d go for a walk, like 2 or 3 of your girlfriends at night, and go for a walk. There was…and roller-skating, sometimes went roller-skating, that’s where I met my husband. Oh we’d go get pizza and…(Trails off)
CN: Was it unusual for young ladies to go walking by themselves? I mean did that happen before the war.
LN: Oh. No fear. We wouldn’t even lock our doors at night sometimes everybody forgot to lock the door and we’d sleep the whole night with the door not locked. (Clears throat) Yea there wasn’t that kind of…no, we we’d walk each other if one had a longer walk to walk alone, we’d walk her halfway there, you know? But we done a lot of real nice things. I…I, in fact I still have these girlfriends today, still alive and we still good friends.
CN: Were you single or married during the war?
LN: No. After the war my sister got married, she met the sailor coming from New London, she married him from Virginia, he was from Virginia. And my brother met a girl in New York and he end up marrying her while he was stationed close by. And yes after the war, that’s when, all the marriages galore, going on, all around you. Your cousins getting married…all the…your—and I remember my two female cousins went to Florida on vacation and they went to a…it was near an army base, they both (hard laughter) married who they met on their vacation. (harder laugh)
CN: What was it like to be a single young lady during the war?
LN: Well they had, like a…certain bars, we’d call it a bar at the time, where the sailors would go, there was a popular place and a lot of girls if they wanted to meet sailors would actually, I…see at that time I was young and I didn’t do those things, I didn’t go, but if the war was continued I was getting of age, I would’ve started going. See I was not of drinking age, you know. I don’t know if they got away with it more in those days, I don’t know, cause I had, knew some younger girls, that used to do it. They would go regular there; they’d have a great time and there’d be dancing there. In fact, at the time, sailors were going away, they were fun loving like, you know they were happy to be…until they get to their destination and their at war. But before that you know, they, they seemed like they were handling life well.
CN: Do you remember the names of any of those places?
LN: Jocko’s. (Laugh) That was a sailor hang out.
CN: Where was that?
LN: It was on York Street in New Haven. And…on blocks of York Street, that’s where Yale University dorm was, one of their dorms, one of their buildings, was on York Street, and students used to go there to.
CN: So did any of your close girlfriends go? Or your sisters? Did they talk about it?
LN: Yea. She used to…I used to see her walk down my street and I knew where she was heading. (Hard laugh) She was going to Jocko’s and it was almost like a ritual, but anyway, she ended up being a very nice person. In fact do this day we still converse on the phone. We don’t see each other anymore but we call each other. We send each other birthday cards, but she raised nice family, she got married, got 3 sons. Didn’t change her life, you know. It’s not like she was a…bad woman, its just that’s what she did at the time.
CN: What was her name?
LN: Gloria. Ohh. (Hard laugh)
CN: When did you meet your husband?
LN: I met my husband…Felix went in the service when the war was over, and that’s when he got…he enlisted I think. I don’t remember, did he enlist? But anyway, he, he went to Bermuda, that’s where he was stationed
in Bermuda and was…and there was no war or anything, and I think he was in the service for one or two years.
CN: Did you meet him during the war?
LN: I knew him—I knew him from roller-skating. I had met him before when he was in his last year of high school. And I was already out of trade school because by that time, I was through with my course and then, we…we kind of were fascinated with each other and it was…always a little spark between the two of us. But then he was younger, and he was on a basketball team, and that year they won the New England title and…and then he became a hot shot. And I didn’t see him around. (Laughing) I didn’t see him around for a while and every time we bumped…by chance, happen to meet each other, that same feeling came, you know? It would come and go. Then he went in the service. And I…I went through that period where I, you know, would be dating other boys, and meeting other young men and still enjoying life, without Felix. But every time he came back, from wherever he was, let it be the Service, let it be the…and (pause) and that’s the way it went. Then, the last time, I didn’t see…we kind of drifted away. But anyway, when I saw him the last time, I guess we started, we realized we always had that same spark for each other and feeling. And after that you know the story. (Laugh)
CN: What year did you meet him?
LN: I met him—let me try to see. The war was on and his brother had just…when I met him at Eli Whitney’s, at that skating rink, one of his friends, and at that time, he was skating around and I was sitting down because I wasn’t sure of myself, I didn’t handle the skates that well (laugh) And every time, he’d roll around, he’d look at me and wave to me. And then when my friend come over, I said: “Hey Look at this handsome guy that keeps waving!” (Laughing) And it so happened, that the fellow my friend Ann met was with Felix, so when he saw his friend there, he came right over and said introduce me. So that’s actually how we met. And…he was in high school and like I say I was already through with school, because I had finished, I wasn’t in high school, I was in trade school and so…I forget why I’m telling this. So actually, I was—16 and he was 17, 16 to cause he was only 9 months older than me. So we were about the same age. And he was in high school so that’s when we met. In his last year of high school.
CN: Was he working when you met him? What kind of work was he doing?
LN: Part time. He was doing defense work to. He had a defense job.
CN: Do you remember what defense plant?
LN: I think the name of it was High Standard. That’s all I know, but I don’t know, but they done some kind of defense work. And being a young, you know, able young man, they…they wanted people like him for jobs.
CN: So how did you feel when he enlisted, or was drafted?
LN: Pause. I handled it okay. Yea. Cause at the time, we never really see…just liked each other but was never any commitments on either part.
CN: Did you move during the war at all? Did your family move locations or did you move?
LN: No. Nope.
CN: Did the war open up any opportunities for you?
LN: (Pause). I…I think it makes you value more things in life, that you took granted before a war. You value more. I think it makes you a better person, understanding person in coping. Sad to say that’s what a war will do to you. Make you look at life different.
CN: Did you continue to work after the war?
LN: Yea. Then I went to making…neckties. Sewing. And I do remember…when I went back to sewing, I always had a little gift, I had a gift for sewing. And I was very young to at the time when I went, like 17, 18, when I got this job sewing. And a lot of the older women around me, they’d been sewing for years, these neckties. And a young squirt comes along, and when you would do a bundle of ties, the next person that gets your bundle would be a presser, they would have to press your work. All the pressers started trying to get my bundles cause my work was done so well. Even as a child. I mean…not a child. I wouldn’t call myself a child, a you know, compared to these, war horses. They…they start resenting me
cause the…cause then they had a meeting one time. ‘What’s goin on? The works not…’ they weren’t pleased with the way the ties were coming out. At that time it was that pure silk and it was expensive for the time, you know and the boss said, that—something about the work being…I knew just how to fit the lining. But I think it was my experience being a sewer. I think…I think if I didn’t go to trade school I still would’ve been a sewer, its just in you. You know how some people are handy doing something crafty in their own way? But anyway that’s where I end up staying, and I got married there and I left when I got pregnant.
CN: Why did you go back to sewing after the war?
LN: Well, because there was no more defense work around like there was. And I did feel like I wanted to follow my trade more. I thought it was more of a girl type work to do.
CN: Were you pushed out of your job? Or did you leave on your own?
LN: Chrissy, that I…I think see—their contracts were through, they had no more contracts. They didn’t have jobs so they let you go.
CN: Do you know what happened to your job after you left?
LN: Eventually the company closed down. And you know so many of the companies…we don’t have as much factory help as we did-years ago they were all over New Haven area, our area, was factories all over. They’re not here anymore. They’re gone.
CN: Were you asked to leave your job?
LN: They closed down. And not that they closed down, the contract…they had no work for you.
CN: Did you know that that would happen?
LN: No. That time didn’t care.
CN: How did you feel when you…
LN: I got the other job right away.
CN: When you were married did your husband encourage your working or did he not. How did he feel about it?
LN: I got pregnant right away. Four months after I was married I got pregnant and didn’t work after that.
Side Two of
Tape One:
CN: This is Side two of interview with Lillian Novak and she was just telling me about her leaving the defense industry to go back to sewing. I want to ask you now. Rosie the Riveter was a popular image of the war, you kind of mentioned her. How do you feel about the image?
LN: I admired it. Admired it. Girls were doing sooo many of those jobs that you never dreamed a woman could do….those kind of things, and today, the women are keeping right up with men. Pilots what not.
CN: Do you think she was an accurate representation of the women?
LN: Yea. Yes. She helped. Helped the war. Helped our needs, yes it was a nice feeling.
CN: How do you feel about the image of Rosie the Riveter today?
LN: I feel women are just as equal as men, just about. In so many things. Yea I have no…nothing against it.
CN: How did you feel when the war ended?
LN: Happy. Very Happy. So relieved. Your fears are…you’re not fearing for your life anymore or-you have the atomic bomb at the time and everything, you know, you just…feel more secure about life and positive.
CN: What did you think about the atomic bomb?
LN: Well it was kind of scary that it-look what it done. And if it could get in the wrong hands, you know, it was…lot of scary thoughts that went with that thing…bomb. You know, glad it ended the war but after you realized exactly what, how powerful it was, how scary.
CN: Now what happened after the war? What was your life like? Your community?
LN: Well. Happiness. Everybody’s family coming back and life taking off again, marriages going on and just nice family living going back to that style again. Because right now it’s not the same, but at that time, all the men, just about all the men were gone. Where now it’s, so far they haven’t had to draft anybody, in that war it was more manpower and today it isn’t. Its just you send em over with their big ships and planes and even my son-n-law to this day is in the navy reserves, captain, and he wasn’t called. He’s on alert but…so its-it was a little different, Much different, in that
time. Where now, I guess now its different threats and different things to be scared about.
CN: How did you adjust to post war life?
LN: Easy. When you’re young…I handled it well, yea happy. Always looking for a laugh in life and something to have a good time with. Yea. I was a happy person.
CN: Did your parents encourage your decision to keep working?
LN: I guess. I could tell you my dad was unable to work. Bad bad heart. And…and-my mom was, you know, at that time, used to being a housewife, an older women. We just took the role upon ourselves to contribute, my sisters and I, and my brother, we all helped out around the house.
CN: How would you assess your experience during the war? What was your experience like?
LN: (Taps fingers on table while she thinks) I think I was a good American citizen…done what I can for my country, never was against anything, you know? Just loved my country. And just I was a good citizen and patriotic.
CN: What did you do after the war?
LN: Start thinking about…a young woman wanting to get married and have a family. Thinking about that kind of life, you know? Someday I would get married and--that was your goal at the time. And at the time…I
went to more dances and that’s when I bump into Felix again. He took me home and we stopped for a drink and we talked and made dates, so life picked up again.
CN: What did you think about the films that were made about the war?
LN: Well it seemed like we found…we learned more things after the war. What actually…things that happened that came out making these movies. ‘Patton’ and all these war movies. We learned more, inside information after. And something like you say, you don’t realize how bad it was even like Uncle Chet to this day, I know he saw sooo much action in the Marines in the Filipino Islands. And…these are things you didn’t know while it was a war, but…you didn’t actually know the detail. Like now we know all the detail of the Twin Towers and the things that went on. You know, coming out a lot sooner than in our days.
CN: How do you think today’s generation understands the experience of the war?
LN: I think even more so now-than our days. I feel they’re more educated, I feel like…they’re a lot more intelligent about life than we wre in our days, I really do. I feel like all my grandchildren are…I’m so proud of every one of em. What they know already know for their young lives.
CN: What is the wars place in history?
LN: The what?
CN: The wars place in history? What is WW II’s place in history? Where does it fit in?
LN: Where does it fit in today’s lifestyle?
CN: Or in the course of history?
LN: Well, the war came to us. You know its not that we were looking to be aggressive with other countries. Its just…we were attacked, and Germany, what they were doing, what Hitler was doing, invading all the countries and terrible terrible things. I…I just thought we done what we had to do. And I always feel like I never have any regret—that our country does anything wrong.
CN: How do you thing the Second World War will be remembered?
LN: (Pause) Well, the Big War, the Big War and…it can still continue to be the big war and I guess it made us all more patriotic, more understanding people. I don’t know how to describe it any other way.
CN: How is it being remembered today? How do people remember it now?
LN: Well, as time goes by, maybe some people do…are inclined to forget, you know how…worthwhile life is, living a nice life. And sometimes throwing away their lives, I think, I think it helps you to be a better person.
CN: How do you think WW II should be remembered?
LN: Well, justified war. A very justified war, helped our…continue our nice lifestyle in the United States, our freedom.
CN: Have you heard of the term, the Good War?
LN: (Pause) Which term?
CN: The Good War. They call WW II the Good War.
LN: Not the big war?
CN: They call it the big war and the good war as well. Do you think it was a good war?
LN: Yea. I mean…what was accomplished. Got rid of the disease, the cancer.
CN: Did you keep letters or photos or anything from the war?
LN: No. How I wish I did. How I wish I did. When I see my granddaughter treasuring all little pictures and things I say ‘why didn’t I do that to?’
CN: Is there anything else I haven’t asked you that you would like to talk about?
LN: (Pauses) I just feel-- how much I love my country. I just want to continue the nice freedom that we have.
CN: Now this was the interview with Lillian Novak, by Christina Novak, for The Voices of World War II, Oral History Project, Center for Oral History, at the University of Connecticut, November 17, 2001.