Interview with Waltraut Schubert by Kristin L. Gless for the Center for
Oral History, University of Connecticut, April 14 2001
Gless: Okay, can you tell us where and when you were born?
Schubert: Yes, I was born September 20, 1925, in Raezebuhr, Pomen, province of Pomen, Pomerania as I think you say it in this country…Pomerania yes.
KG: And how away is that from Berlin?
WS: It is not too far from the Baltic Sea. I will say about, it took us two hours
By train to go to the Baltic Sea. And I was born to the parents of Helene
And Karl Sauk.
KG: Okay, what was your parents education?
WS: Well, my mother was a designer, a dress designer. And dad worked for…well, where I was born was mostly farmland, rich farms and very cultivated. In my hometown, there were three thousand people, nice villas, and well-to-do people. They had the big factories, cheese factories and very big farms.
KG: So it was not a city? It was just a small town?
WS: Small town. Very well-kept and even had sidewalks there.[Laughing]
KG: So what did your dad do?
WS: He was in charge of [what do you call it here?] where the farmer bring all the their stuff. I don’t know how you call it.
KG: A warehouse?
WS: No, it was not a warehouse. It’s corn, potatoes… there was a stopover for the big cities.
KG: Okay
WS: Yeah, I don’t know how you call it. I don’t know how you say it in English but I know it in German.
KG: How do you say it in German?
WS: I don’t even know. I don’t remember.
KG: He worked for the farmers?
WS: No. When the farmers brought in the corn and all that…it was a big, big thing. I guess it was shipped out to big cities and all that.
KG: How many brothers and sisters did you have?
WS: Two brothers.
KG: Two brothers?
WS: No sisters.
KG: Were they older or younger?
WS: I have younger brother, Werner and an older brother Rudy.
WS: Okay, so what comes next? I was baptized in a nice church. My religion was Lutheran.
KG: Where did you go to school? Do you remember the name?
WS: No. It was one school.
KG: One school for all the grades?
WS: Yes. Then we had a middle school too.
KG: Can you remember any of your childhood interests? What you liked to do as a child?
WS: Swimming…very, very big in swimming. Almost every day we had sports. We had a big gymnasium and played basketball, baseball…The same like here, the same sports. In the summer, we went to the big lake. We had a lifeguard, we had cabanas where we could change…from school. If it was a nice day, we had two hours to go swimming. I liked that.
KG: Did you dive? Or did you just swim?
WS: Yes, of course. I was pretty good in that. Not afraid of the water…you could see that in the pictures coming to this country. So anyways, it was nice, we played. In the winter, a lot of skiing. We had old skies. There were no school buses. We had to walk or bicycle in the summer…it was just around the corner. But then we took skies up to school. Snow from October to April. Snow, all winter long, snow. So we went sleigh riding in the afternoon always.
KG: So you were pretty active?
WS: Yeah. We were pretty active.
KG: Did you notice any changes during the 1930’s when you were an early teenager?
WS: No, I don’t rememember. No changes. Not in Pomerania that much.
KG: Did you hear about what was going in with Hitler coming to power?
Did your parents talk about it at all?
WS: Yes, we knew it later on. Not when I was maybe eight years old. I was too young then. I guess in the 1930’s when we voted for him, I guess so.
KG: So they voted for him? He was very popular?
WS: My father did not vote for him…that came out later. He did not. I know that for a fact. It was like here. It was secret… Ballots were secret. I think so. That is what I found out later. I don’t remember too much about that when the war broke out.
KG: Do you remember when the war broke out?
WS: Yes.
KG: How old were you when the war broke out?
WS: It was around 1938 so thirteen or fourteen years old.
KG: Did you notice any changes in your town?
WS: No, not really.
KG: Not right away?
WS: No.
KG: Did a lot of people talk about it?
WS: About the war?
KG: Yes.
WS: Oh, definitely. A lot of husbands and sons had to go to war.
KG: Did your father go to war right away?
WS: No. I don’t even know what year that happened.
KG: In the early 1940’s?
WS: You know something. I don’t even remember when he was drafted.
KG: So he was drafted? He did not volunteer?
WS: Oh, god yes. Nobody volunteers.
KG: Was your family upset?
WS: Of course, everyone was upset.
KG: Were your brothers drafted?
WS: Yes, my oldest brother was drafted later on too. Yes, it was closer when the war was over…1943, 1944. He was young too…eighteen years old.
KG: Were either of them injured during the war…any casualties that you knew of…around your town?
WS: Yes.
KG: Was your father or your brother injured during the war?
WS: My oldest brother was.
KG: What was his injury?
WS: His right arm was very badly injured. He was in an American prison. My father was captured in Russia. He was kept two years in Siberia. Last time I saw my dad it was in 1943 and then I didn’t see him until 1947.
In 1944, the Russians and the Poles coming marching in closer to Pomerania and they went to East Prussia already. So in 1944, Christmas, I left, I was drafted and then didn’t go. But then we went to the Baltic Sea and then the Russians came and then I was discharged by the Germans right away. I think they saved my life.
KG: The Germans?
WS: Oh sure.Yes.
KG: You were drafted into the Air Force?
WS: Yes. And they saved me life because they put us on a train south away from the Russians, otherwise we would all have went to Siberia.
KG: So what was your mother doing?
WS: So the war was over and I was in Austria. My mother, they all were in a camp, in a Polish camp.
KG: From your town?
WS: Yes. They had to leave…They evicted my mother, my brother and Heinz. They evicted from her home..,our home. They put big [unclear] fences around all in one street.
KG: Who did this?
WS: The Poles and the Russians. Then they were in a concentration camp for six months. Finally, in 1946, the Russians took them by Berlin and then they were six months in a concentration camp there. Then the English people they took them into West Germany…into the English zone. Meanwhile, I was in Austria. I was injured on my right leg. You can see the scars. I was injured by scraps that were from the bombs.
KG: Where were the bombs?
WS: All cities were bombed. I went through quite a bit of bombing. Berlin, yes. I have been there. [Unclear]
KG: What happened with your mother and your brother? The Polish and the Russian soldiers came into the town?
WS: My youngest brother, he was fourteen at the time. They took him into Poland and they put him into a concentration camp. They put him into a church for six months. I think when the Poles came in my mother had him hid. She was hiding him out in someplace but they found him and then they took him. Then he escaped and went back to Raezebuhr. And he got skinny that he could go through the fence. That is what I understood. Then, at that time, a couple of Poles saved my mother’s life.
KG: Polish soldiers or Polish citizens?
WS: Yeah, the Poles. They were protected because some of the Russians they raped every woman, including my mother. They were all raped. It was very bad.
KG: That must have been hard on your family.
WS: Yes, I do not want to think about it because I start crying when it is your own mother. I particularly don’t like talking about that.
KG: Did she then return to your hometown?
WS: Yes, she was always there in my hometown. Not the house we lived in. I think a Polish doctor took over right away. They threw them out and kept all the furniture.
KG: So the Polish soldiers set up a camp right in your town?
WS: Yes, they put a [unclear] fence so nobody could go out. Until they put on a train into the Russian zone because they occupied it. This country, I think, and Russia they divided it. They knew it was going to be Poland and that is when they threw out the rest of the German people.
KG: Because they thought it was their land?
WS: It was not their land but that was the agreement at that time.
KG: Did you see any American soldiers at all during this time?
WS: Yes, where I went. There were a couple of them. They were prisoners from the plane, the big bombers. I think they jumped from the plane. They were treated like everyone else. They went to church on Christmas Eve with the Germans and sang Silent Night.
KG: The American soldiers did?
WS: Yes
KG: Did they seem like they adapted very well?
WS: Oh, yes. One of them, I think, came from German parents so I think they adapted very well.
KG: So they seemed like they liked the German people?
WS: They were not held like prisoners. They worked on the farm. One was from San Diego. I remember once when he got a care package…chocolate. I got a piece of chocolate. And I don’t know what happened when the Russians or the Poles marched in. I have no idea. But I think they must have gotten free.
KG: So, what did your mother, you and your brother do before all this happened? Did you have jobs?
WS: Yes, like I said my mother had a business. She was a dress designer, seamstress.
KG: Did you work in the factory?
WS: Yes, I worked in the factory. Everybody had to work at that time if you were sixteen, seventeen years old.
KG: How was the town affected by the war?
WS: No bombs or anything.
KG: Was there limited food or supplies?
WS: No, we had our ration cards.
KG: You had ration cards
WS: Oh, yes definitely.
KG: What do you think was the general mood during the war?
WS: Happy? No. No one was happy being in the war. My home was not like big cities like Munich, or Nuremberg, or more of the fanatics for Hitler. I wasn’t brought up like that.
KG: Not a lot of supporters for Hitler?
WS: No. I am afraid not.
KG: Were people afraid of what he was doing?
WS: A lot of people didn’t…You know, I don’t remember that good. When you are young…
KG: You couldn’t really get a sense of what people were thinking about Hitler?
WS: We didn’t talk too much about him. He was not a socially acceptable person to talk about, especially in front of my mother. Absolutely, not.
That was a no-no.
KG: Why?
WS: Oh, gosh. She was against it.
KG: So she didn’t want to talk about it at all?
WS: No. I remember when I was little at nighttime, of course, you had to put down the shades. The planes, I don’t know, went to war zones. You could have your light on but black shades had to come in front so the light wouldn’t go through.
KG: Blackouts?
WS: Then around 10:00 she [my mother] would listen to the radio, listening to the news from the other side. You know, they call it propaganda news. My mother was a pretty smart cookie. I think so because she was in America, my dad too, and she liked it. I wish they could have come here but they didn’t. When you get to that age, you don’t want to leave.
KG: So after the war they stayed in the same town?
WS: No, we were thrown out. I left in 1944, Christmas, and I never went back. I never saw my hometown anymore. All I could hear, when I tell you later about going on a visit to my dad, I said “I am an American citizen and I can’t go to Pomon”. He said he did not want me to go. My mother too. They wanted me to remember the way my childhood was with all the buildings the same and not destroyed. All the cemeteries and they didn’t want me to see the houses burned down.
KG: So what town did your family move into?
WS: They moved into West Germany then, to Bielfalt. The English brought them over there as a displaced persons. Then they settle down in West Germany.
KG: When did your father return? You said 1947.
WS: Yes, 1947. I did not know where my parents were. I had no idea where my dad was. I had no idea where my brother was. Everybody was destroyed. A lot of people went to Siberia. Cousins of mine who were very young. What I found out later when we got together in 1954. We had a together from Pomerania, all the people met in Dusseldorf. Everyone from your hometown. It was quite emotional but then you found out so many people were killed.
KG: By the Russians?
WS: Yes, by the Russians in Siberia. Pomerania lost about 7 million people during the Second World War. That’s a lot of people, 7 million people alone.
KG: From battles?
WS: Yes, from battles. I think that included East Prussia too. Battles and killing mostly the civilians.
KG: So when did you find out where your parents and your brothers were? Weren’t you in Austria?
WS: Yes, Austria. Then Americans brought me into the American zone. When I asked if I could go back to my home, they said “No, you could never go back to your home…It is Polish now”. They put us on a train into Austria into West Germany, into Heidelberg. Then I wrote a letter to some of my neighbors, a cousin from my mother. They had relatives up in West Germany and I wrote them a letter that said I was here and if they ever heard anything from Raezebuhr, please let me know and my parents. Oh, it was quite a while. Then I heard from a cousin from my mother. Then I went on a train and it took me two days to get up north. You know that everything was destroyed and nothing was built up yet. And I stayed there and that is when I found out a lot of things.
KG: What did you found out?
WS: That they were all in concentration camps. I think it was in 1946 when I heard from my mother. I worked for the American government already over there in the Signal Corps.
KG: Where were you working for the American government? In Germany?
WS: Yes, in West Germany. I was in Heidelberg and I got a job in the post office. And then the third army came in and occupied the post office in Heidelberg. I spoke English at that time, a little bit but with a much worst accent at that time than now.[Laughing].
KG: How did you learn English…in school?
WS: Yes. The majority all learn English. I had an English teacher from England, I wonder whatever happened to her? Mrs. Wolfe. Then they trained me for four days and then…
KG: Can you describe your job?
WS: Yes, I was a switchboard operator. Teletype. You know when someone puts the telegram through and then type the telegram up which goes through the switchboard.
KG: How much were you paid?
WS: From the post office in Heidelberg than they put us in what they called Kazanuh, where all the soldiers were. They didn’t bomb the Kazanuh so the Americans took over. That is where you saw the pictures. You saw the pictures with all the girls?
KG: Yes, with all the five or six girls.
WS: Oh, yeah on the switchboard there? “Service with a smile”. We were all on the switchboard.
KG: Did you have to speak English on the switchboard?
WS: Oh, yes definitely.
KG: Is that where you picked up a lot of your English?
WS: Yes, and from reading and going back to school.
KG: So how long did you work there for?
WS: From 1946 to1950/1951. When the Korean War broke out, then they eliminated a lot of the Germans on the switchboard and brought in their own soldiers. The GI’s had to work the switchboards and they couldn’t do it so they after four weeks, they called us back.
KG: Did you back to work?
WS: Oh, yeah. Well, there were security reasons, don’t forget. At that time, I didn’t even know where the heck Korea was located. You know, it was a war. I know Sergeant Johnson had to go there and he was killed.
KG: That was your boss?
WS: Yes, he was my boss. Sergeant Johnson Then I traveled back and forth. Then in 1947 I got good news that they found my dad in East Germany because he came back from Siberia. They worked very, very well. It was like the Red Cross. Through the radio, they announced “Please call so-so” and your home address if you’re looking for parents, brothers, sisters…all over the radio.
KG: So that is how you found out?
WS: Yes, the majority. The Red Cross… there was a lot. They had special places where you could go and put your name and your address. “You are looking for so and so” and then it would go all over Germany.
KG: So then you went to West Germany to find them?
WS: Yes, in the English zone.
KG: How did you feel when you saw them again?
WS: It was very sad.
KG: Did they look any different?
WS: Oh, yes. My mother turned completely gray.
KG: Did he [your father] talk about his experience in Siberia?
WS: My dad? Very little…he probably did more talking with my mother.
KG: Was he in a labor camp?
WS: Sure…War is a terrible, terrible thing. Nothing to eat, Siberia had nothing to eat. I guess I found that out. He didn’t tell me directly but when a soldier died, they would cook the liver and feed it to the people. That’s a true story…That is not made-up.
KG: They would feed it to the other prisoners?
WS: Yes. There was no food. Apparently they didn’t have enough food for themselves. Siberia is a very poor country even to this day.
KG: It’s very desolate.
WS: Absolutely. The poor women…they worked and worked for nothing. I could have been there too. Could you imagine? That’s really…if you believe in God. You don’t have to go to Church every day. God is with you everyday and that is what I believe very strongly. I think that helped me a lot during all the years. You have to believe.
KG: Your faith is very strong?
WS: Absolutely. I was brought up very…Sunday church. We had our pastor come in to school twice a week for religious instruction. Yes, it was very strong.
KG: So how did your father get released?
WS: I think at that time they wanted to get rid of them and put them in East Germany.
KG: Because the war was completely over by then?
WS: Oh, God, yes. It was 1946/1947. Yes. I don’t know what he did. He was too sick…
KG: So he didn’t work any more?
WS: Oh, God. Yes. He got a job right away with the English.
KG: What did he do?
WS: I really don’t know. My dad was not like…he never made it more than a private. Poor thing. [laughing]
KG: In the army?
WS: In the army, never made it more than a private. He was not very good soldier. I don’t know. He was obedient, my father, but…
KG: He didn’t believe in the cause?
WS: No.
KG: So what was his job with the English when he got back…you don’t really know?
WS: Security.
KG: And then your mother was still a seamstress.
WS: Oh, God, yes.
KG: And then what happened with your brothers? Did they live in the same town?
WS: My oldest brother, when he got back of American prison, he couldn’t either go back to Pommon. So he settled in Cologne Germany and then he got married right away. He met somebody.
KG: He was in an American prison of war?
WS: Yes, but not very long. The war was over and he was wounded.
KG: Did you ever talk to him about that experience in the camp?
WS: No, it was not…the war was over and he was released right away. I don’t even know where he was…someplace in Germany. They let him go home right away.
KG: Then what happened with your younger brother?
WS: My youngest brother? He was with my mother.
KG: So when did you get sponsored to go to America?
WS: I worked…it was on the switchboard. Colonel [unclear] at that time called me in his office. He said “Wally sit down.” And I said, “Yes, I am sitting”. He said, “How would you like to go to America?” I said “Beautiful”. Just like that. I said, “I haven’t found the right GI yet to marry”.[laughing]. We were laughing. He said “No, I will put you on the train to Nuremberg. You are going to be one of the first 100 displaced persons to go to America. I said “Oh, yes”. So he showed it to me and I read it and said “Oh!”
KG: Read what?
WS: The article in the Stars and Stripes that they were opening up for displaced people. It had to be strictly where I came from…Pomerania, East Prussia, [unclear], and Sudetanland by Czechoslovakia. I think there were a lot of Germans…Hungary too. So I took the train to go to Nuremberg. And I went to…I was interviewed by Sergeant, filled out the papers.
KG: Do you remember the questions they asked you?
WS: Oh, well, yes. But see I had not birth certificate.
KG: Why?
WS: Because it was all burned out. The town was destroyed. They had to take my word for that. I think they found out later in Berlin. I think they found out…and I filled out the papers. So I went back to [unclear] at that time, I worked in the Signal Corps in [unclear]. Then went on the train and went back and then I had to wait.
KG: How long did you have to wait for?
WS: Oh, it was in the summer when I applied. I think in the fall, it could have been October when I had to report to Munich. I had to go for four weeks to bring your clothes and go through all these proceedings. Shots and all that. Then I was accepted to go to America. So that was exciting. Then in Munich, then we took the bus to Dachau. That was the first time I saw Dachau, the concentration camp. I stayed there for four months, I mean four weeks. That is how we got our papers. Everyday there was more papers, more papers, more papers.
KG: So did you see the concentration camp?
WS: I stayed there. We stayed in the barracks.
KG: You stayed where the concentration camp inmates were?
WS: Yes. In the barracks. I didn’t want to tell you but we really started talking.
KG: How did you feel about staying there? Was it uncomfortable?
WS: We had…it was quite cold. I remember it was very cold but they got us with sheets and blankets. They fed us there.
KG: Was it how they left it before?
WS: Exactly the same thing. Then we had dancing at night, we saw movies…old-time movies and music. But most of the time in the morning, it started after breakfast. Right away, health. So and so many shots for typhus…Oh, Kristin, you have no idea.
KG: So you were there for four weeks?
WS: Four weeks. How many shots I got? I haven’t…you had to be clean. You had to be everything to come to America.
KG: Who was giving you…was it the American army?
WS: Yes, it was the Americans. Don’t forget I became an American displaced person. There were [unclear] with the German government.
KG: How did you feel about staying at a concentration camp?
WS: Oh, that didn’t bother me. When you are young, of course not. You go to Munich, you dance at night. You were free.
KG: It didn’t upset you?
WS: I don’t remember if it upset me at that time. But we were more in the Dachau concentration camp. A lot, a lot of Germans were put there in the Dachau concentration camp because they didn’t put up a fight for Hitler. A lot of German soldiers didn’t want to fight. I knew one too who was in a concentration camp. He didn’t want to fight for Hitler.
KG: He was in your town?
WS: Next to my town. They put him in a concentration camp.
KG: Do you know what happened to him?
WS: I don’t think they killed him. I really don’t know what happened to him.
KG: Did you know during the war there were concentration camps?
WS: Not really. They did not call them concentration camps. I think they had a different word for it.
KG: Who the Germans?
WS: Lager…Lager camp…you didn’t want to fight for Hitler or what.
KG: So you didn’t know that Jewish people were being sent there?
WS: No. I don’t think from Opi that he was in Dachau. You know, my husband was in Africa for four years. When he got out of the army, then he became a civilian, then he became an interpreter. I didn’t talk too much about that because he was in Africa through that. He knew I went through hell so we wanted to live a happier life.
KG: So he was an interpreter for war crimes?
WS: Yes, war crime trials.
KG: So he would travel around Germany?
WS: Yes and also Austria.
KG: But you didn’t really talk about it?
WS: No but I knew what he was in Africa. He was with the military intelligence.
KG: The Germans or the Americans?
WS: The Americans. He came to America in the 1930’s.
KG: Because he did not want to fight for Germany?
WS: No, he had no intention. No part of Hitler. He came here in the early 1930’s when he was young. He had a purple heart.
KG: So what happened after you stayed there for four weeks?
WS: Then we were sent home to get ready. Then they said I would leave in 1951. In November or December, I would leave Germany then. Then I went home and stayed a couple of weeks with my parents. They told us to see our family and friends to say goodbye and get our papers all straightened out and all that. And to give up our big homes, which we didn’t have [laughing], furnished rooms…
KG: How did your parents react? Were they happy or upset?
WS: I guess my family…I was the only daughter. But when you are young and I said I was going to try it and if I don’t like it, I could always come back. That was the opening. If you don ‘t like it, you could always come back to Germany.
KG: So they wanted you to try it?
WS: So I went, yes. Then I didn’t hear. Then Christmas I went back up again then comes January. I said I was supposed to leave in 1951, now it became 1952. Then I came back to [unclear] and there was a letter. “ Report to Munich you are leaving March 7, 1952” out of Bramehoffen. Then I went back north again to say goodbye to my parents again. And then packed. I could only take sixty pounds with me. I couldn’t bring money.
KG: So what did you bring with you?
WS: Clothes. Well, my mother made me a couple of beautiful outfits so I didn’t look like a displaced person [laughing].
KG: You could not bring money?
WS: One German penny. No money for a displaced person. So I gave it to my parents to put it in the bank for me in case I do come back. One German penny and I put it on Mommy’s [referring to her own daughter] charm bracelet.
KG: That was the one Germany penny you could bring?
WS: Yes, for good luck. And it brought me good luck.
KG: Were you excited or were you scared?
WS: Yes, very much excited. And there were three weeks in Brahmien in another camp until the boat was ready.
KG: Do you remember the date which you exactly left?
WS: March 7 and then we arrived in New Orleans in March…I think Mardi Gras was over. I remember it was there, around the 23rd.
KG: Where did this ship depart from?
WS: Braehmin, the General Britchford.
KG: How was the trip over?
WS: I felt it very strongly…very seasick. Forget it, I was so seasick. I remember that…I wanted to die. The race was high as the Empire State Building. Every body was seasick. I don’t know how many we were, we were quite a few people for the displaced person.
KG: Did you know anyone before you got on the ship?
WS: No, I met in Dachau quite a few people but then they went to New York. See it all depends where your sponsor was. When I came to Brahmin and where we found out what state you were going to and the Americans were there and said “Miss Sauk, You go to the Nebraska…the state of Omaha, Nebraska is your sponsor”. I said “I don’t want to go to Nebraska. Where is Nebraska?” Then they had the big map and showed where Nebraska was. I said “All my friends…they go to New York or North Carolina. How come I go there?” Well, we have ancestors who came to America. My mother had cousins, apparently from the 1600’s. They traced them…there is a Sauk center in Nebraska and Minnesota and Wisconsin, from my maiden name. Sauk. That is how they traced the ancestors who came here many, many years ago.
KG: So you didn’t know…?
WS: Oh, I knew that I had relatives from my mother’s side.
KG: But you never met them before?
WS: Never met them before. I met one cousin from my mother in the 1920’s. I must have been four or five years old when he became an immigrant to America and he was in Milwaukee, a brewery master. But they drafted him too and he had to fight against the Japanese like your grandfather. [unclear] I don’t know I really didn’t ask.
KG: So did you make friends on your trip over?
WS: Oh, yes. Definitely.
KG: And then it went to New Orleans. What was the name of the ship?
WS: General Bletchford, write it down.
KG: Were you nervous at all?
WS: Was I nervous?{Flipping through pictures to find photo of the ship] Yes, when you are young, you adventure. That’s it.[referring to a photo of the ship]
KG: It was a naval ship?
WS: Yes a naval ship. They called it more like a transport because it transported troops. I think it was the last voyage.
KG: Was it uncomfortable?
WS: Yes, they had us sleep in hammocks. When you go sea sick, you go [unclear].
KG: Were their American soldier on board with you?
WS: Yes, merchant marines.
KG: Did you talk to them?
WS: Oh, yes we talked to them. We worked on it too. I was an interpreter on the ship.
KG: For whom?
WS: For all the people who did not speak English.
KG: But you didn’t get paid for that?
WS: No. I don’t know how it worked. I think of who paid for my trip. I think part of the Americans and part of the Germans too.
KG: So you did not pay for anything at all?
WS: No, I did not pay for my trip.
KG: Were you nervous about the way Americans would react to you?
WS: No, I worked for them!
KG: Were you worried about how American citizens would react to you?
WS: No, not everyone can like you. Especially after the war. Oh my god, you are German. If you do find somebody like that, you ignore them because there is a hundred other people that will like you. If this government didn’t want us here, they wouldn’t of brought us over here in the first place. That’s security, I think. Since I worked for them on the switchboard, I think I had quite a bit of experience.
KG: And you spoke good English?
WS: Yes, I spoke a little. My accent is still terrible.
KG: So what did you do when you got to Omaha?
WS: Oh, when we landed in New Orleans. The Blanchford stopped in the afternoon. Then ten immigration people came on board.
KG: In New Orleans?
WS: Yes, and I was an interpreter with another guy. And we met that night with the captain and the immigration, we shook their hands and they were welcoming us to America. Then we had to stay all in line and they had a big table on the ship. That is when all your papers came out. When they called my name “Waltraut Sauk” I said “yes”. Then they opened the book and I said “Oh, my”. Papers were full, my entire background. They did some search. Of course, they had to search. They had my birth certificate.
[Begins looking at pictures and a map that Waltraut has found]
[ She finds her hometown on the map}
KG: How long was your family living there? Centuries?
WS: My mother was born by Berlin, Brahenburg. I think her father, big family a lot of children, he settled in Pommen. He was a carpenter and that is how she met her my dad.
KG: Were your grandparents alive during the war?
WS: No, my father’s mother died before the war. I remember that…she was diabetic. They had a goose farm. Originally, all their relatives were from Sweden and they all had big goose farms. At Christmastime, we didn’t have turkey, we had goose. [Unclear]
KG: So you are looking at the map to see where your town is?
WS: Yes.
KG: Why did you feel that Germany was fighting the war? Did you ever think about it when you were growing up?
WS: I think what he[referring to Hitler] to free all the Germans from Poland, Czechslovakia. I think that he had that in mind but he got carried away. He got a little nutty in his brains. I don’t know. I know someone from my hometown who wanted to assassinate him, my parents told me.
KG: They wanted to assassinate Adolf Hitler?
WS: Yes, when he was in Poland. He was with a group of soldiers who wanted to kill him. I never heard from him again.
KG: How did you view the enemy? Did you view the Americans as the enemy? Did you view the French as the enemy?
WS: No, when you are that young you do not think about that. I was not raised to hate. My parents did not believe in hate, especially my dad. Don’t hate anybody. Be happy go-lucky and sing and dance and to the Oktoberfest.
KG: Did you ever feel unsafe during the war?
WS: Where I was born and raised? No, not really. I guess we felt in the 1940’s that the English or the Americans would fly down and then in 1944 or 19443 realized that Pommen, my hometown, would eventually go to Poland.
KG: So your family knew that?
WS: I don’t…When you live there all your life, you don’t think about someone coming in and taking over and you will be thrown out. I did not see it but I knew about it.
KG: So the German army drafted women in the air force?
WS: Yes.
KG: So why didn’t you go again?
WS: I don’t remember so don’t ask me. I just didn’t want to go. No, I did not want to go. Trust me.
[Tape becomes full of static for a few moments]
WS: I will never trust Communists. I will never trust Russians today. I am sorry. I still don’t trust them. I don’t care.
KG: So you never experienced prejudice when you were in America?
WS: No, there were only…no. My girlfriends in Nebraska didn’t want me to go to New York. It is so far away but it was only 3,000 miles. It was Christmas 1953.
KG: Did you have to take your citizenship test?
WS: No, I had a green card.. That was your way into the United States.
KG: Did you ever have to take the test?
WS: Yes, I took Heidi and Rudy with me [her two children]. Around 1958. I could have taken it sooner. The judge told me I should have but I told him I was busy raising the kids and I wanted my English to be perfect. The judge was a sweetheart and we talked for a few hours, particularly about Germany. Very nice man. A couple weeks later, I was an American citizen.
[Due to technical difficulties, the remainder of side B, a portion of Waltraut’s interview, is incomprehensible. The second tape is audible and Waltraut is discussing her stay in Austria}[1]
WS: My injuries were very bad. I think the Americans wanted to take my leg off.
KG: What was it from?
WS: From scrap bullet or it might have been a bullet. I had this gorgeous on and this women said I had her dress on [because the soldiers had given them clothing] and I said “Come to the hotel and pick up your belongings”. She came to the hotel and the American soldier said that they don’t belong to her anymore. They belong to the Nazi party. I don’t know. Now they call them Nazis but they were really just for Hitler. I kept a couple nice dresses. I didn’t really want it…not from that but I had nothing to wear. Then we had a house, four girls…all displaced persons. Then they didn’t want us to go back in case we were raped by Russians so they put us into the American zone, West Germany…American occupied.
I had to go to the northern part, the English zone. Germany was divided by the French, the American Zone and the Russian Zone. It was East Germany. When the wall came down. Harry and Walter [my cousins] were there and took the wall down, they tried to ship it down. They weren’t there that down but they called me to put on the television 7 o’clock in the morning. She was crying and then I was crying. Oh, God.
KG: You were happy.
WS: Oh, God, yes. Absolutely.
KG: Do you remember about hearing when the wall was built?
WS: Yes.
KG: How did you feel about that?
WS: Very bad, very bad. Don’t forget I had relatives in East Germany, from my father’s side and my mother’s side too. It was heartbreaking. It really is. My mother was really close to her and I like that cousin too.
KG: Is there anything else you want to add?
WS: So, then I came to New York then I lived happy ever after. Well, then Opi [her husband] died twenty years ago. I like Groton, Connecticut and I like my volunteer work[referring to Senior Citizens’ work]. I am a cashier. I like what I am doing. I do my crafts and I keep myself busy. I have a nice family and nice grandchildren.
KG: Do you ever think about going back to Germany?
WS: To live?
KG: No, to visit.
WS: I don’t think so. I don’t have anybody over there anymore. My brothers are dead, my mother is gone, my dad is gone. I have cousins there, you know. But no not really.
KG: Do you think about your World War II experience a lot or is it something you don’t really think about?
WS: My family keeps me so busy here so I have no time to really think about it. I don’t want to think about it, I like the way it is right now. I am very proud of my six grandchildren and I feel very blessed.
KG: Thank you very much.
WS: Thanks.
Appendix
KG: When you moved to New York in 1955 and then moved to largely populated community on Long Island, Garden City, did you experience any hostilities?
WS: It is difficult for me to remember. No…I don’t think so. You have to understand, though, that I was friendly to everyone and if some Jewish people didn’t like me for my heritage, so what. I am still take proud in Germany and my homeland. People do not understand that we suffered too.
KG: In what ways did you suffer?
WS: Well, everything I have talked about I suffered. We were starving, we lost our house and I had to leave my family behind and go to Austria.
KG: Why again did you go to Austria?
WS: It is not something I really want to talk about…Oh, yeah but I want to tell you about something that happened in New Orleans when I got off the boat. I had to go to the bathroom very badly and I did see the signs for colored and whites. So I went into the colored sign and went to the bathroom. When I walked out, there were a few black women who started shouting swear words at me. I think they thought I was making fun of them by going in there. They pushed me around a bit and I ran away to the boat. That was my first experience with discrimination in America.
KG: How did you feel about that?
WS: I thought it was funny that I heard America was the land of the free and they made people go in separate bathrooms, just like they did in Germany with the Jews.
KG: Did you pick up on any other forms of discrimination?
WS: No, not really because I moved to Nebraska where it was much different than it was in the South. Oh, I forget to tell you before about the time which really sticks out in my mind when I was treated badly because I am German. It must be have been around 1974 or 1975 when I went to visit Mommy [my daughter] in the hospital where she was working. I walked into a room and Heidi was taking care of a sick, old man. I began talking to her and suddenly, he started yelling at me to get out, get out. I asked him “Why?” and he said “Because you are a monster…you are a German.”
KG: How did you feel about that?
WS: I felt very angry because I did not do those things to him. He was a survivor of a concentration camp and did not want me near him, or Heidi for that matter. He learned that she was German too and he did not want her to treat him.
KG: Do you think he had a right to act this way?
WS: No, not really because he does not know me and I suffered too.
KG: Don’t you feel that way towards the Poles and the Russians?
WS: I don’t know…maybe but that is different. My home was part of Germany and should not have been taken away.
KG: Okay. When did you go back to Germany and was how did it seem different to you?
WS: I went back in 1960, that was the last time and I think, I was happy to be there. It is still a very beautiful country and I am proud to be part of it. My parents were doing well and they were happy.
KG: Did they want you to move back?
WS: Of course, they did immediately but when they saw I had a family in America, they understood. They liked America…they just did not want to come here.
KG: Why do you think there are still problems in Germany today, such as Neo-Nazism?
WS: Well, I hate that word Neo-Nazism. Hitler was crazy and I don’t understand why people still worship what he did. He committed suicide for God’s sake! I remember that…hearing he had committed suicide. We were ally happy because we knew the end of the war was coming and that our struggle would be over soon.
KG: Do you remember where you were?
WS: I was in Austria, in my friend’s room, listening to the radio. I just wanted to go home and find my parents.
KG: So why do you think there are still problems in Germany today?
WS: I don’t know…Well, I think part of it is because all of the foreigners, like the Turks, coming into the country. People do not like that. I just don’t understand why America focuses so much on Germany. We have many immigration problems here and this country, I think, is more racist than Germany…I do not know.
KG: How do you think World War Two is remembered today?
WS: I think it is remembered as a war against Germany, the evil nation. But we were not all evil.
KG: What about the war in the Pacific?
WS: I do not really know about that…I just know that I want people to know that all Germans were not Nazis. It was a small group of people that took control.
KG: Do you think it could have been stopped?
WS: I do not know but you could not oppose Hitler in public, for sure. I knew some people who did that and I never saw them again.
KG: Do you wish that more people could learn about German history and why this occurred?
WS: Oh, sure. I think that a lot of nation’s histories are misunderstood. Germany should not be excused for what happened but I really think most people did not support Hitler after the war began. He was very smart and very controlling.
KG: Do you think that World War Two would have occurred if Hitler never came into power?
WS: I do not know…I think Germany would not have had such power if it weren’t for Hitler so I would have to say no.
KG: Thanks again for your cooperation
WS: You are very welcome.35
[1] Additional questions were asked over the telephone to Waltraut Schubert on May 8, 2001in regards to the information lost on the cassette. See Appendix.